[00:00:00] EMMA: Well, this tea with the Queen's a little bit different. I have a very special guest on today. I get asked a lot what it's like to work with your sister mainly. It's excellent. Uh, but as you'll hear, it might not be excellent for her. So I thought I'd bring Serena on and have a little chat about what it's like behind the scenes at Emma McQueen because we get asked this question a lot now we sound very, very similar and we look actually quite similar.
[00:00:25] So if you're watching on YouTube, you will see the resemblance and you'll also hear it. So let's see how we go. Welcome Serena to RT with the Queen. Well, thank you for having me. How very exciting. We've talked about you a lot in all the episodes as you know, because Serena is amazing and listens to all the episodes and that's how she hears how wonderful she's from me, which is awesome.
[00:00:48] We also have head honcho of Bambi, Brianna, with us today because she's gonna ask some smart questions, uh, of what it's like working sisters, working with sisters, and different bits and pieces. Alright, Serena, why did it take you so long to agree to work with me?
[00:01:05] Serena: I remember when you asked me to work for you, and I was like, there is no way I'm working for you.
[00:01:11] Not because I don't think you're awesome, but I was really worried that. It might affect our relationship if I wasn't up to scratch or if I did something wrong, or if I wasn't what you thought I needed to be. So that's why it took me a while to agree.
[00:01:27] EMMA: I know. And now you'd never be anywhere else, would you?
[00:01:30] Serena: [00:01:30] A hundred percent.
[00:01:30] EMMA: The beauty of working, the beauty of working with your sister is that they can never escape people. They can never escape. I think Serena was a bit worried because Serena hadn't. Done a lot of office work, right. Serena's background, which is so appropriate to working with us, is mental health.
[00:01:48] She used to be a mental health nurse and um, as you have heard on our podcast before, our mother was bipolar and so, you know, like mental health had run in the family. And so Serena was a mental health nurse [00:02:00] and then went to become on, to become an ambulance officer. So by the time she got to me, she was like, actually, do I have the skills necessary to do what you needed to do?
[00:02:08] And I'm like, you are. Organized and just as a ps. She's the smart one. I'm the funny one. This is how it has been her whole lives and she's so organized. I will give you a tidbit. First of all, she does a menu for eight weeks. She does a menu so that she's got the menu on her fridge, everything that they're going to eat for eight weeks now.
[00:02:33] If someone is that organized with a menu, imagine how organized she's with me.
[00:02:39] Serena: Well, I have to be, don't I Really?
[00:02:41] EMMA: Yes. You really do. You really do. Well, so tell everyone what is it like working with your sister, uh, who has a busy mind, let's just say. So there's never a dull moment,
[00:02:53] Serena: and I never really know what's gonna happen next with your amazing ideas.
[00:02:59] And I do love that, and I admire that very much in you. And I know that my job is to see how we can make all that work and how we can get it to all come together. So I do enjoy the challenge of that. My job started really looking after your calendar because you just. Overbook yourself and you think there's more than 24 hours in a day potentially.
[00:03:23] So, you know, calendar Tetris is definitely a favorite part of my job, and I do get great satisfaction in making the calendar work well and just being able to keep up with all the things. You come up with. But I love working with my sister especially, you know, we took for granted, didn't we pre COVID that we could just jump on a plane back and forth from Perth to Melbourne.
[00:03:48] And when COVID came, we couldn't do that. So the fact that we could work together meant I was still part of your world and connected. 'cause you're super busy at work, so out of work, that was tricky. [00:04:00] So I just feel super grateful and super blessed that I get to. Share your days with you and put silly things in your diary every now and then.
[00:04:07] Like, what to write in my birthday card or, you know, leave a note for your husband, or whatever it is. I love that. I feel, I love being part of, of your world, so. Working with you is pretty awesome for the most
[00:04:21] EMMA: part. I like that. For the most part, for those watching at home. Serena is the yin to my yang. She absolutely is.
[00:04:28] She's the kit to my cat, right. We're business besties and we still annoy each other, right? But also. We probably forgive each other easier because we are family as well. And some of my clients would say, would you recommend working with family? And I'm always like, no. And now I'm realizing that actually that's a bit hypocritical because yes, it really works for us.
[00:04:51] I don't know if it would work if we were in the same state. I don't know if it would work if we were in a different business, but for what we do now and our clients love Serena, I mean. You can just hear how lovely she is. So, uh, that's what she's like with our clients and one of the reasons that I wanted her in the business is because I'm not that nice.
[00:05:10] Whereas Serena's like super nice right? And super kind and generous and polite, whereas I've just like. Are, they're dead to me. Where sprint's like, no, no, we can make it work.
[00:05:22] Brianna: So when you started working together, how did you clearly define the role right, that Serena would be taking in the business versus what your role is?
[00:05:34] Is that something that was established straight up or was it something that evolved over time?
[00:05:40] Serena: When we started working together, we realized, or I was really mindful of our work boundaries. So for example, when Emma and I communicate with work, we use teams and we now use Marco Polo as well. But when we wanna send a message as Assisters, we use Messenger.
[00:05:59] So [00:06:00] we set up really clear. Um, ways of our communication because I didn't want my whole work life to then just blur and for me not to feel that I could just chat to my sister. 'cause we have lots of good sister chats and you know, we only have each other in, we don't have our other brother, other siblings.
[00:06:18] So my relationship as a sister is really important for me with em and also her being an auntie to my kids and a sister-in-law to my hubby. Like those things are super important to me 'cause families. Our most important thing, really. So with my role, it definitely has evolved. I started out mostly looking after Emma's calendar and you know, when I first started Emma's like, and I said, no, no, I'm not sure.
[00:06:44] She's like just two hours a week and then. Could you do six hours or what about eight hours? Oh, look, 12 hours would be really good. Anyway, 24, 30 hours a week later. My role has evolved and things have added into it. So it wasn't clearly defined at the beginning, but it's definitely growing. But I think we've done really well with setting up our boundaries at the beginning and continuing that.
[00:07:09] EMMA: Yeah, and I would say that my diary was a mess when, uh, Serena and I first started working together, and I just couldn't handle the volume of work that was coming through and people that needed me. And so Serena cleaned up my diary, which is great, and managed my calendar. There's never been a question.
[00:07:27] Who owns the business? There's never been a question around. I do writing of content. I do the thinking, I do the delivery, I do the sales. Like there's very specific things that I have never asked Serena to do. Everything around that is up for grabs, and so we sometimes have to outsource because it's in neither of our wheelhouse.
[00:07:46] But the content creation, the writing of the books, the thinking of content of resources for our thriving women community, all the things that's all on me. The selling and the delivering of all those pieces. That's all on me. [00:08:00] Anything outside of that I try and get rid of, which is why I was starting to work so many hours
[00:08:05] Serena: and I would never wanna do all those extra things.
[00:08:07] 'cause as you said, we play to our strengths. That's way out of my, um, brain space. And you're amazing at the things you do.
[00:08:15] Brianna: And so then what about, okay, this can be a tricky question for people. What about when it comes time, and I'm not sure whether you do this, but certainly. Lots of businesses do this when you have performance reviews, so do you sit down.
[00:08:31] And then like Emma, as the business owner and Serena as the employee, do you have to come together and you review Serena's performance and give her, you know, feedback? Maybe the feedback isn't the greatest, or, I mean, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be Serena, I'm sure you're amazing, but you know, how do you handle.
[00:08:51] Those kind of discussions where it's job performance, it's not sister performance.
[00:08:57] EMMA: That's a great question. Look, I am ex hhr and I'm a little bit allergic to teams and meetings and people, and so, uh, I haven't been as good at that. Sitting down one-on-one and going, okay, here's your performance review. I also feel that's just a bit icky as a sister, but I think what we tend to do, and feel free to, correct me if I'm wrong, Siri, is sometimes I'll be like, Hey, I need this thing done.
[00:09:24] It should only take five minutes, and Serena now goes to me, that's actually gonna take me three hours. How do you want me to prioritize that? So we've got that relationship. And Serena's a words of affirmation girl, and I am not, I'm like Homer Simpson. I like grunt and all the things, right? So I have to try and remember to give Serena the good feedback because things go wrong.
[00:09:46] I think also I have as a. Person who owns their own business. I've relaxed a bit into mistakes. Mistakes happen, and that's okay. You just get on with it. Whereas five years ago, I was probably a bit more uptight about, oh, that email didn't go [00:10:00] out, or This didn't happen, or that didn't happen, and now I'm really relaxed about that.
[00:10:04] And Serena's strength is responsibility. So she's like making sure that nothing falls over and she beats herself up more than what I ever could anyway and would ever want to. So I think we do it more on the fly. We don't sit down and do, this is the formal thing. We do have a position description for Serena, but it has evolved so much over the time and there's so many moving parts.
[00:10:26] Also, there'll be times when, let's say we're on a Zoom call and the tech's not working, and I get a bit grumpy at Serena and Serena's like. Lovely on Zoom, you can see that nothing's phasing her. And then after she'll go, you're a bit rude. I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm so sorry. And so, you know, like it happens almost in real time.
[00:10:44] I don't know what you think Sarah, but does that sound right? Performance
[00:10:48] Serena: management? Yeah. Well that could definitely be a growth theory for us. I do ask for feedback 'cause I am a feedback girl and I love to know. You know how Emma has gone, how you've gone and with, um, different events you have, so you're getting better.
[00:11:02] You'll send me photos or you'll send me a little video and I love that 'cause I'm part of all the background, but often I'm not right there. So I don't get to see that. So I love that. And I think early days I did used to ask for a lot more feedback and now I kind of just go, well, no news is good news because if it's, if something's bad and will let me know.
[00:11:23] And I think this gets back to how we grew up, actually. Robust discussions were not something that we have grown up learning well and I, so I think that's an area that as we've kind of matured and grown up in. In our families now. We're probably getting better at that, but with each other, I think we probably don't do that a lot, but we are getting be I, I just have to ask em.
[00:11:47] And now as em says she's rela you've relaxed em a lot, haven't you? With you know when and I love that you are so gracious when I do stuff up and make mistakes because Yeah, stuff happens. 'cause often 'cause [00:12:00] it's me trying to do stuff that I haven't actually. Learn. I'm just trying to figure out as we go.
[00:12:06] So we make it work though, which is good.
[00:12:09] Brianna: I like that. You've both been honest there. As far as saying, look, we actually don't do, because this is something that you come across a lot, is that when people are working with their partners and their siblings and whatever, they don't have the structure that a normal.
[00:12:23] You know, relationship maybe would have, if it's a normal working relationship, uh, it can, sometimes the lines can be a little bit blurred there, but as long as you are, uh, aware of each other's kind of strengths and differences and you know what's gonna work for the other person, then you know, the actual traditional performance review, um, doesn't need to be.
[00:12:46] Necessary as long as you're feeling like you're being valued, like in both ways here.
[00:12:51] EMMA: I think I try and give feedback in other ways. So, you know, when we go on holidays, we do time in lieu and all the things, because I mean, Serena says she works, what, 24, 30 hours, but actually we all, we all know she works more and so I try and do things that are.
[00:13:07] A little bit left of center that you couldn't do if you are working in an organization. 'cause you'd have to get reams of approval. Right. So little bits and pieces that I can send or gifts or whatever, extra holidays, time off. Serena's beautiful in that. She's like, these are the hours I'm contracted for and this is what I need to do.
[00:13:24] And I just say to her, I don't care. Like, just do what you need to do. The kids have a carnival, go see them. You know? And Serena's really. Working. Working on being okay with that. 'cause I'm like, I don't care. I want the output. I don't care about how many hours you sit at the computer for. I want us, I don't want us to feel like it's that traditional, we have to be tied to the laptop or tied to the desk all the time, because that's not the type of business that I'm trying to create.
[00:13:49] I'm trying to create a business where I can go and have a nap. Serena puts that in my diary every day. That's awesome, right? That I can go and have a nap and do all the things or that I'm out and then [00:14:00] Serena gets. Some time off, like when I was in Canada recently, I was away for three weeks. I'm pretty sure Serena was like sighing relief while I was away so she could get stuff done.
[00:14:11] But I'm trying to steer us away from the traditional stuff. 'cause Brianna, I come from a HR background, $365 million business. And I watched all of those things that were put in place for good intention crumble because people are just not honest with each other. And so all I'm trying to do is not have a life like that, not feel like we are living in a prison like that.
[00:14:31] We enjoy ourselves and that we make good revenue, we make good profit. And also I get to. Impact another family by employing my sister. And I made the decision very early on my business that I wouldn't go overseas for help. That's just not me personally. And so being able to employ my sister that impacts her entire family, like her kids, her kids are gonna be coming over go-getters days, they're like chomping at the bit to come and be my marketing people, which when I need young people, that's gonna be amazing, you know?
[00:15:01] And so I'm just trying to do it differently than what. I have been positioned traditionally to do.
[00:15:07] Serena: And Emma is the most generous boss. Like, I feel so thankful when I put in my holiday form. She's like, oh yeah, just take an extra week or take an extra two. Like, she's super kind like that. And because I've come out of, I've come out of, um, the government.
[00:15:23] So in health, you know, you've got your time card, your check in, your check out, you've gotta be bang on. Mate, you're lucky to get a muffin as a bonus gift once a year, you know, whereas Emma is amazing. I get little things in the post, I get treats when I go over for, go get a day like that is Emma's love language with me.
[00:15:44] And then even when I was a paramedic, you know, you, you clock it in, you're clock it off, there's overtime. It's just a very different kind of role. So, but I do. As Em mentioned, responsibility is a high strength of mine. So I do wanna always make sure that she knows she's getting the best value. [00:16:00] Um, but I feel very thankful that I have, yeah, a very amazing boss, that's for sure.
[00:16:04] Brianna: That's so nice. Oh, I love that. That's so cute. Okay, so then I guess my last question would be, what about when you get together? So if you are in person together, right. Do you talk about work or do you have like, this is a no go zone. You don't talk about work. You know what, what? How does it work when you're together?
[00:16:26] Can you separate personal from business? When you're in the same environment?
[00:16:30] EMMA: That's a great question. Do you wanna go first? Sorry. Or you want me to go?
[00:16:33] Serena: Yeah, it's a, it is a great question and I love that because we are able to put really strong boundaries in, obviously Emma's, um, Emma McQueen liked her baby, and so it does overflow into our sister life.
[00:16:49] But I think we've got very good, like for example, when I come over for go get a day, we'll go for our walk and have breakfast together and we can put it in a box, right? We'll talk about work now. Okay, now no more work. Let's just enjoy having our BRE and enjoying the sites where we're walking or when we get together at Christmas time.
[00:17:09] We're like, well, no, it's, it's family time. It's not work time. And if we need to talk about work, we can go, Hey, just can we just have 10 minutes here? Let's just thrash this out and then we don't need to talk about it for the rest of the day kind of thing. So I think we do that pretty well. Em
[00:17:24] EMMA: actually, I mean, Serena's actually very kind in answering that question.
[00:17:28] When I come over to Perth, Serena puts me in a little hotel so that I've got some time to myself because she knows that I need that. And when Serena comes over to Melbourne for Go-Getters days, I think it's easier because we share a room, which I love, and I'm a marketer's dream, as we've talked about on this podcast before.
[00:17:46] And so I bring little treats of things that. For Serena, which make her laugh. And so we get lots of sister time, but also we know that we are there for a purpose. So Serena's coming to go get a day. We know we've gotta get that thing done. We know, [00:18:00] also know that after the event, I probably can't string a sentence together, so there's no need to try.
[00:18:05] Uh, and because Serena is my sister, she knows that so well about me, right? And so I think that's the beauty of working with your sister that they know. They know when to push and when to pull. Last time Serena came over, it was June and the next day we planned out 2026. And by two o'clock in the afternoon I was like, I cannot do this anymore.
[00:18:27] And she saw it. She saw a crash. And I'm just like, oh my goodness. And so we had to take advantage when we are together of getting stuff done because sometimes it's just so much easier to do it in real life than it is over Zoom or whatever. Uh, but I think we've gotten better at that. And I will say that's Serena better at that, not Emma better at that, because my lack of boundaries is really quite unbelievable.
[00:18:48] Whereas Serena, and I'm a rule breaker, right? So you gimme a rule, I'll break that rule. Whereas Serena's like, this is the boundary. And so I'm glad to have her because if I didn't have her, I. Have no boundaries basically.
[00:19:00] Serena: And we have a great giggle when we are together. I mean, there's lots of stuff to have a laugh about and you know, I know to not talk to Emma after a certain time and, you know, so we, we, I get all that and, um, thankfully I'm not too high maintenance, otherwise I might not feel too loved.
[00:19:17] But overall it works very well.
[00:19:22] EMMA: Oh dear. I can't episode just making.
[00:19:32] Serena, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I know that you listen to these religiously because you're freaking amazing, as you would've heard. She's the nice one. She's the yin to my yang, and sometimes it can be awesome working with family and sometimes it isn't. Awesome. Now, if you want any feedback, send it Serena, and if you've got any questions about working with family or you've got.
[00:19:54] You are like, what about this specific thing? Please reach out to us. I would so gladly answer it. [00:20:00] Having had seven, eight years, a lot of years working with Siri now and uh, making family work for you both. Yeah, because it's gotta be a win-win situation. And so if you've got any other questions, we would love to hear them.
[00:20:14] Serena, did you have anything else you wanted to. Add to our, as we finish the podcast out.
[00:20:18] Serena: Oh, look, I love working for you, miss Emma McQueen. I feel very thankful every day, and I, I don't just say that, I actually, I really mean that. I love you very much and I'm so proud of you and I have to listen to your podcast 'cause that keeps me up to date with what's going on for you, because sometimes you forget to tell me stuff, but I love it.
[00:20:39] And uh, it's been a real honor to be your guest today, so thank you for having me. And yeah, I'd love to hear other people's takes on what they think working with their family. 'cause it's pretty cool if you can get it working well, that's for sure.
[00:20:52] EMMA: Yeah, totally. Thanks everyone.
[00:20:57] Thanks for listening to Tea with the Queen. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It really does help. To get the word out for more about me, please visit emma mcqueen.com au and I look forward to your company next episode.
